[sash]

just to verify , I reviewed some of my winter bills from 5- 6 winters ago 2003 - 2004). ( before greening my home) the usage in January and feb was ~$265.00 per month ( at todays rate about $305.00).. so at electricity at the time being 5.5 cents per kw makes it ~4800kw per month.. ( + 15 dollar service fee) ( avg was 3800 kw) and the summer usage lowest was 75.00 ( including the 15 dollar service fee) or about 1100 kwh ( todays rate $81.00) ( but average was about 1250)
2009 (from the web-pages of my hydro provider)
last winter during January the bill was ~ $200 for 3100. at 6.0/kw and the 15 dollar service fee)
2009-01-28 $198.72 3038 kwh avg high -14.6 average low -25.2
this summer
2009-07-29 $36.44 411kwh avg high 22.8 average low 11.0.. ( the wet cloudy summer that it was)

so if I can realistically 1/2 it with my geo thermal.. I am guessing , my winter usage should be about 1500 kwh or about $105.00 for the coldest month.

to make the buffer tank is not too expensive, I explain how to make one in this section.. cost of making it is probably 50.00 - 75.00 ( since COPPER is 1/2 the price of what it was last year)
to buy a ready made buffer tank at least $2500

since I did everything myself. and got everything cheap because I got it directly from manufactures - in asia where the stuff we buy in Canada is coming from anyways- i just cut out the middle men - anyone can do it just takes time and patients )..
solar panels 250 each plus ~150 each shipping, controllers ~50 dollar each , plus 30 shipping each, geo thermal pump 500 plus 500 shipping each ( but next time I probably get the 12 kw version instead of the 7kw they cost 800)

so all my improvement will probably be paid off in less then 5 years

[c2turbo]

How much would the solar pannels cost here . I think your saying that the pannels price is wholesle! Is that right ?

[wwbbs]

Great work Sash, wish I was as mechanically inclined as your self. I would save a fortune. My poor house eats about 5000-8000 Liters of fuel oil a year to run my damn boiler which is by the way a 90% efficient system and all radiators are in working order. *Avg +18C x 5000 square feet. or 50 Liters a day when it's -20C

Just wish this stuff became more mainstream so a person could hire a good qualified contractor's to do this work. Ya interested in coming out for a Moose Hunt / fishing trip there Sash?

What would one pay for a professionally installed system? Or what type of contractors would you hire to connect everything up and make it work when no specialist's are available?

I've looked at geothermal but I'm built on top of a mountain so I would need to diamond drill pretty freaking far to hit water... That was a bust...

I've looked at the outdoor wood stoves but they all seemed to be made of cheap Chinese steel and fall apart quickly or produce oodles of smoke etc....

I've looked at hxxp://solarwall.com/en/home.php but no one ever returns calls etc... *(Guess I'm not wal-mart of fedex...)

[sash]

hi c2turbo
here is probably the cheapest in NA that I have found.. http://www.gearsolar.com/ . they sell thier 24 tube for about 700.00 - 800.00 US on ebay ( to buy directly this unit cost about 300.00) `- but they probably make up a bit on shipping like most ebay seller do. they are a slightly poor quality then the ones I get. also they might be only suitable for -15C mine I paid abit more for thicker glass and copper. there supposedly good till -40C and colder. if you live close to a port city. and you can pick it directly.. shipping is drastically reduced.. to 25- 50 per unit.. (even for the heat pump - I paid 50.00 to port 450 to where I live )

but usually I see. ones rated for Canada 18- 20 tubed ones selling for 800.00 and up.

wwbbs@ pro installed. well heat pumps usually cost around 20,000.00 and up. and the solar 2 panel ( ~40 tubes) usually around 3000.00 and up.

by the way on your mountain you do not have topsoil.. you're right on the shield ? you only have to go down 7 feet and run horizontally.

[wwbbs]

Nope no topsoil to speak of deepest might be 20" if that. I did misread your post however I thought your system was a solar pv + thermal roof top setup. That was what I was looking at doing for this place. I've got at least 2000'sq of roof top that I was going to look at putting a hybrid solar pv and thermal collector system but I'm not capable of doing the work to the standard's that I would like it installed. I've seen many setups where the use reflectors to heat either water in warm climates on a open loop system and in cold climates a closed loop system with ethylene glycol. Since I've already have a hot water heating system I wouldn't need a exchanger (I believe that's what it's called) to connect to a furnace etc. And the solar panels are used to provide the energy to circulate the system and perhaps some extra juice for the house.

Anyhow Great work Sash and thanks for sharing your knowledge on these systems.

[sash]

hi wwbbs, if you want to try to import PV panels. I can get them for about 2.00 a watt( at least that was the last quoted price this summer) then if you buy micro tie grid inverter. one little inverter on each little 200watt panel. you hook them in series to max of 15 panel then you just connect it to your fuse box.. each inverter is about 180 each.. (http://store.solar-electric.com/enmigrsy.html
-- mind you they are a bit pricer on this site then what I normally see them at)
so say you were to do 3000w system

15 inverters = 2700
15 200watt panel or 3000 watts at 2.00 = 6000$ (PLUS SHIPPING)
total after all about 11000 dollars.

but truthfully you get more bang for your buck from the evacuate solar water heaters.. if you import 3000 watts worth it is about 250*3 = 750 dollars ( plus shipping). and about another 200 - 300 to setup..

[akuma1281]

Hi Sash, I understand from your post that you'll have to bury tubing underground, would that be pex or is it another material?, what length and what thickness will one need to bury to supply 1500 sq ft of living space, I'm curious bcse I have limited space around the house. Thanks for your educative post and keep up the good work.

[sash]

akuma1281

not that I am an expert in geo thermal.. their are more qualified on this forum then i am. if I remember correctly. if your doing strictly geo thermal it is basically 300 -400 ( some place require 600) feet of ground loop per 1000 square feet for a basic house also the unit needs to be 1 ton per 1000 feet.. their are many hvac calculators on the web that will help you decide the proper size of geo thermal unit and foot of loop you will need depending on your location.. and depending on your code some require you to use a pex type piping. hi density polyethylene. I did not use this type . since I live it what called an unstructured area. I am allowed a lot of leniency. I used a normal csa ( white line) polyethylene one continuous piece other then it where it spliced into the solar collector. it not a problem to get 1000 foot role (usually special order at a local hardware store normal role up to 400) ,I use 3/4 inch with my 7kw pump ( should be good enough for 20 kw pump) and 1200 feet of loop. runs easily on it. when the inside return loop temp is 15 C ( or what every temp ) by the time it leaves the machine it it 11C Usually a 3-4 degree drop. by the time it comes back it 15 c again.. I over sized my loop because the poly is dirt cheap.. and it rated 27c at 75 psi for 40 years.. I am only running at 15 psi maybe 27 c from time to time. the life span of my loop is probably 60 years. before I might expect a failure.. ( i have the same type of poly running in the ground for 40 years at 55 psi and it still has not failed- my dad installed . a long long time ago in our yard as part of our water distribution system.)..

if you can install a new heating system a radiant system is 15% - 25% more efficient then a forced air heating system.

here a wiki on it it gives a lot of general info about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump